Confused Beta Male Laments Realities Of Online Dating – Return Of Kings

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Anyone that says they are a "catch" usually are not. If the majority of messages women receive are juvenile, insulting, generic or just plain creepy, why is it that those rare men who study women's profiles the written ones and craft each message around the woman's likes, dislikes, hobbies, etc, still receive almost no replies? Archived from the original on 26 November Online technology makes mingling easy. Can men really be too busy to chat?

About ELLLO!

Then I read through their profile to see if they might be a person I would consider meeting in person. The whole story is likely impossible to tell but any story told from the perspective of two individuals to describe the experience of tens of millions of people is bound to be a bit shortsighted. I feel the same way about the guys looking at my profile. We all have our things we're into but I'm often guessing if I'm even attracted to the women I agree to meet. What I realized was the dynamic was completely different; women naturally start becoming a lot more arbitrarily selective because of this constant initiation. I am 5'7 in shape and the dating world seems wicked since I was married and I have dated some attractive ladies.

Dont play these silly immature games with women from america. They are way out classed in everyway. Women have all the power. Due to slut shaming they don't message guys first unless you're A a male model or B look like you have a lot of money.

Online dating is pointless for men since men have to do all the work. Women have all the power if they are young, thin and pretty under Otherwise women are invisible.

Yet, Ironically, women will spend their 20's chasing all those players and bad boys who will never in a million years settled for these girls only to figure out that by the time they hit 30, all of the guys they could have had are long gone an these players and bad boys want nothing to do with a 30 year old girl cuz they're still getting attention from the 20 year old ones.

I haven't had to date a 30 year old EVER. Yes, I'm a man in my 40's who married a girl I met in my 30's. She was 19yo at the time and I married her years later. While in my 20's I was one of the "nice" guys who rarely could get a date, this was pre-online dating. While I spent a decade overcoming my shyness the "alpha" dudes were pounding the young women left and right, pump and dump, ignoring the masses of nice guys who could not compete for one reason or another, shyness, etc.

Sad but true and an example of "Youth is wasted on the young women ", who don't know by experience how to make the best use of their youth PLEASE, Ryan - tell me that your entire article was a facetious ramble that was written late one night after you had consumed way too many drinks.

Yeah - like two quarts of proof rum! I have never read a less informed article on inter-net dating. You have the sheer audacity to state that what you have written is 'the whole story'? You state this, based on two interviews? You, my friend, are naive, foolish and ignorant beyond belief.

I would have more confidence asking a street sweeper to conduct a triple bypass on someone's heart than to rely on your advice on dating.

Finding a match on an online dating site takes a lot of work, especially since most sites today are overrun by scammers. That said, for most people who are no longer in school, they are probably still the best 'focused and pro-active' option.

Yes, you are likely to be disappointed, to be hurt along the way, but then I suspect that even though you were married before you left school, you still had your heart broken once or twice before you met your wife. And yes, it is possible to meet people in church, at meet-ups and other special interest activities. However, a good many people you will meet in any of those places have no interest in finding a new partner.

Pay close attention to what I have written my good sir - you married young and have only been married 15 or so years. That's a bit harsh isn't it? What's Ryan ever done to you apart from waste a few minutes of your time reading his article.. That poor guy might not have all the answers but his article still provides food for thought - in my humble opinion please please don't bite my head off for it!

And while I had the same reaction as you, that ironically one day Ryan too might end up on a dating site, I really wish for him that he does not because dear god it is an ugly parallel dimension!

Ryan, may your happily ever after last forever! We're already planning the places we'll be traveling together during our retirement. But thanks for offering your perspective. Happy to hear of your success. All the best to ya and many more happy memories come your way! I have tried online dating on and off for a year, 2 years after my divorce. Met a few in real life. First one seemed decent, professional, fit and all but too arrogant and thinks he's perfect.

Second guy almost stalked me so poof, I was gone! Third, I actually ended up dating. Normal looking guy with a decent job and seems to be responsible but way too insecure. Currently talking to someone for 4 months now, the very last one I met online. I don't know where this is going but I don't worry whether it works or not. I am the type who lives in the moment.

We talk everyday and are getting along very well. But I have deleted my account online, not because of him but because the people I saw on one site are the same people I have Encountered on another. Same creeps who thinks they are 10 just bec they are muscular. I am well toned but never considered myself a Most people online think so highly of themselves but once you start talking to them, red flags started to come out.

Pictures are so outdated, like 10 years or so ago And those are just some issues I have encountered. People online are serial daters. Call me old fashion but once I start dating someone regularly seeing him , I don't entertain any other men.

I feel like I am not giving this one a fair chance if I do. But most people online don't think that way, they think they always have a "reserve" so they don't take one person seriously and wolf easily let go of one.

I don't blame them as there are too many people online to choose from. So good luck to all online daters! I think the most relevant thing you say is people are serial daters. Most people I meet online, especially the hot ones, are some of the most insecure people I've met Makes em feel better. I just want to meet a girl I could be friends with before I start dating her. It is nice to get a male and female perspective on their expereiences. I never thought I would be trying online dating at my age over I am from the old school world of dating and have found online dating to be awkward and uncomfortable, not a fun way to meet people.

I put up a direct, honest profile, stating what I was looking for on more than one different site. It has been extremely hard to find honest, genuine guys locally. I get turned off by guys calling me gorgeous, not saying more than hi, instead of simply asking questions to let me know that they are seriously interested in getting to know me.

When a guy does write me to say something more than "Hi," I have found out that a lot of guys have had their own drama with women. I hear the same thing over and over: Once you finally find someone who is looking for the same kind of relationship as yourself, you find you are both very skeptical of each other. I have only been able to go on a hand full of meet and greets only to find no connection.

So, I too am trying to find outside interests to get away from the social media and hopefully, find the kind of relationship I am looking for.

Trying to remain hopeful and realistic. I also do not want to settle, as that is unhealthy, dishonest and not fair to both parties. I wish everyone the best of luck in searching for that special guy or lady! Since I've never been married, outside of a few long term relationships, I've been dating offline and online for a long time. They get hundreds of emails, and a lady you may have met at the gym who is a 5, thinks she's a solid 8 online.

In the last year alone, I've met 4 women who said they were divorced but were really separated all with really unique stories as to why their divorce wasn't final. Turns out, 3 of those 4 had family violence felonies pending against them! The 4th, I should have got up and walked out after she started talking.

Not only did she lie about the little things on her profile, like having a degree, her occupation, and marital status, but she was a solid 2 compared to her pictures. What did all the women I've met online have in common, a solid relationship with their phone. Now I call them out on the phone issue and I don't care what they think of me. If you can't take 30 minutes or an hour and put your phone in your purse or leave it in your car like I do, then stay at home browsing, FB, POF, Match, Instagram, or whatever else is the in app.

I think you're giving women far too much credit. Granted there are guys out there that are creeps and they probably never leave the house and use somebody else's pictures, but I'm willing to bet they're few and far between.

I see no reason that a decent looking woman has to resort to online dating , unless she is super busy which i beleive is a great alternative for a busy person.. Essentially playing the role of the opposite equivalents of their male trolls , jerks and perverts You know what I'm a nice guy who's romantic, successful, and respectful and I get passed by and ghosted once things start to get real.

I think women like the idea of a relationship but have horribly overblown expectations. The three things I keep coming across are women who have no time to commit, just broke up recently and shouldn't be dating or they think far too highly of their prospects. Close your eyes picture the perfect guy now open them. If you were that perfect guy would you settle for you? Having tried internet dating and meetup, I personally prefer "live and in person" approach to finding a match.

Here is a point by point breakdown of the two different approaches. Dating sites -spend a lot of time setting up a profile which you hope will convey my personality and attract interesting guys -answer some multiple choice questions with four answers, none of which actually work for me really, I have to choose between a.

I just want sex b. I'm okay with sex on the second date c. I always wait for the third date before having sex d. I'm a complete prude who will never ever ever have sex.? Hey, since I'm definitely not comfortable with the whole casual sex thing, I guess I must be a complete prude. Now I'm feeling really great about myself! Okay, I'm interested in guys within a km radius, between , looking for a relationship, between , doesn't smoke, between , is single, between Yeah, I got a bunch of "hey sexy!

Look through some more profiles, send a few more messages. Show up, and the evening starts off really nice This guy doesn't seem to get it that I'm not that into hearing ghost story after ghost story.

Okay, now he's trying to talk me into going to some dark secluded area on a ghost hunt What female in her right mind goes to a dark, secluded area with a guy she's just met? The whole internet dating experience is highly unpleasant.

Meetup groups -create a profile, upload one picture, answer a few questions about interests, and I'm good to go -okay, let's see what meet ups are happening in my area. Join meet ups -pick an event that works with my schedule, show up for an evening of board games at a pub -have a nice meal out, play some fun games, meet some nice people. Hey, I didn't meet the love of my life, but at least I had some fun, right? Meet a nice guy, exchange emails Plus, meeting people in person just feels more natural.

I've gotten to speak with a few women, but only have met one outside of the digital world and we found that we didn't really connect.

Which is my main problem thus far with the sites; lack of connection. I can think of plenty of reasons why women wouldn't respond to me, but for those who do, we just can't seem to connect. Eventually, we seem to run out of things to chat about, and the conversations die off.

I want to approach women in the real world, but I get in my own way as a shy nerdy introvert who has a roommate read, doesn't have a private place to take a girl back to, if they were so inclined. It's a lie that there's someone out there for everyone. After all, if that were true, there wouldn't be so many lonely people out there. Guess I need to just drop the sites and focus on trying to make myself happy in life without romance.

Nature didn't takes it's course as it did over That just doesn't work, period. She can be however interested if you got a smooth talk and decent pictures.

Most of the time a woman is not self aware of what she wants and gets bored with the chat because they thrive on emotion, unlike us men. But in the end you need to be your own man in the real world and become the best version of yourself. Attraction is not a conscious choice, meaning a women can't control to who she is attracted to. Just take care of yourself, read self improvement books. Go buy "Mind lines" from Michael Hall and educate yourself to create a healthy view of the world and stay away from negative news and media.

I've been on Plenty of fish, okCupid, and Zoosk since November. It is now April. On PoF, I got lots of views, but the only message was an offer to sell me drugs. On okCupid, I didn't even get but a few views, and no messages at all. On Zoosk, I got lots of views and lots of winks, but only from guys out of the state, and again, no messages. On Zoosk and PoF, I even tried messaging guys first, but no responses. Almost all of friends married guys they met on these sites, but I have no idea how they did it.

It's like you're describing my experience on the dating sites. I sit down, think of witty things to write to guys, and I get nothing back. One evening, I read like 10 profiles, made custom messages that I felt were well thought out. This is on both OKCupid and Match. I do have one guy on OkCupid though who likes to send me dick pics I've met my girlfriend on a dating site.

But I've read literally hundreds of profiles, contacted dozens of women, went to a dozen of a really bad dates before I've found someone. The problem is you're messaging guys out of your league.

Close your eyes and think of the perfect guy now open them. Would you as that perfect guy settle for you? I'm not messaging guys out of my league.

I don't want a guy that's super fit and looks like a movie star. I want a guy that I'm attracted to, but that I'll feel comfortable around. Eventually there would be sex, which won't happen if I'm too self-conscious or if I'm grossed out at the thought.

So if I dream up my perfect man, he's going to be a little hefty, he's going to have a receding hairline and his face won't be clean shaven, he's going to wear comic book characters tshirts, he's also not going to be hugely successful, but he'll have his act together, he'll be well educated, and sarcastic, and a little bit dark, and if I were that guy, yeah, I'd date me because I'm pretty sure if I were a guy, this is the guy I'd be.

I think perhaps you're reflecting your own insecurities and prejudices on others. Kim, if you're not getting replies, you simply aren't attractive. I'm not being mean just being real. Don't kid yourself for the sake of saving your ego. I agree with you, Kim. It's the men who are delusional. I'm an average looking 35, slim but not gorgeous woman and I've had terrible luck online. Men DO assume that women have it made on dating sites, and we can just sit back and let the decent messages roll in.

It's only the women who are under 30 and look like models who can do that. I started online dating when I was 26 and a size 3. It didn't work for me much better than it does now. Men who look like George Costanza think they deserve Jessica Alba. And, will ONLY message the super hottest women out there. While we try to message guys in our own age range, with a similar level of looks and intelligence and get ignored.

It's a waste of time and I am so done with it. There are some very interesting posts here. For the ladies I would say I'm sorry that you have to put up with so many rude, insulting, crass men and their messages.

Very unfortunate, but most likely the culmination of a cultural whirlwind that has swept over the land the last 50 years or so. I typically respond to messages from women that I have no interest in and do so in a polite manner, encouraging them to stick with it as it takes time to find the right person online. However, I don't think the online dating model is productive, for all the reasons mentioned in the posts below.

And to those that say that millions of people have met and married via online dating sites, I say prove it with hard data, not conclusory statements bereft of evidence.

In my case, I've had several dates from these sites. The first gal profiled herself as The next gal was very nice and I had met her at a gym that we both were members several years back. Very attractive woman, but I was sure that I would be happy being with her every day for the rest of my life. I could have continued into a relationship with her just for companionship and sex, but that's not who I am.

I have to be convinced that I am falling in love with a woman, or could do so, before I am willing to fall into bed with her. Old school, I guess. That last gal messaged me relentlessly. She stated in her profile that she was "curvy"she was not, she was obese.

Now here's the interesting thing. Like most other men here, I don't get a lot of message responses via online dating. But if I go out to meet women, I will get approached by fairly attractive women 20 years my junior, routinely. For some reason, I don't get approached by women within 5 years of my age or unattractive women.

I don't have to do any of the work. And again, they could end up being friends with benefits, if I were so inclined. But again, the issue is do I want to wake up to this woman every day for the rest of my life. So far, the answer has been no so no sexual activity occurs subsequently. I have thus concluded that real life, 3 dimensional contact is vastly superior to online dating if you are searching for a mate. You get to examine the product up close and personal, and you're not confronted with them whipping out their photo album to show you 18 pics of them skiing, hang gliding, with their pets, their kids, grandchildren, or ex's.

And conversation actually ensues without a question questionnaire. Best of all, you don't have to travel 30 miles to be disappointed. I'm out of material for now. I met my guy. We have friends who met their partners on line If you havent met anyone after a few months then it is not the flaw of on line dating or the other gender. Why is it that many of the men or women behind those profiles you flip throgh have found success? People ARE meeting in person.

YOU are the issue. You may be the greatest catch in the universe but YOU need to shake up your profile, message style, responses, etc.

Dont just tweak a few variables but start afresh. Haha, isn't that funny, the guys profile needs to be shaken, as usual is the guys fault. I have done online dating, for a good while, and met people, got some short relationships, out of it. One of the main issues are, a guy needs to send loads of emails to get very little replies from women.

The other issue is due to women having to make nearly no effort, as are mainly the guys who contact them. So, all they need to do is look at the photos and choose, without even bother to read the emails, deleting them straight away. All because they think with so many guys contacting them, there's always a better one just about to appear!

The other issue, is how quick they are at labelling guys, any little thing he said she didn't like or goes how she thinks he should have approached her he is a creep a weirdo etc. Man, I totally feel you. But I think probably there is some other issue because I followed all the possible tips and i have never ever even thought about saying "ur hot" or stuff like that and I only met a girl who wanted to find a man to get a passport to stay in the country after several years.

As if they were so much more special that we have to go beyond the moon not to even get an answer, because their "emotional" brain I am sarcastic about both labels you in two seconds. I think it is really too simple for them at least too many of them and what does that say about their ability to approach real difficulties in relationships and life?

Women dont send dick pics to guys. That's why we are not creepy. If men didn't immediately make everything sexual they might have better luck. I never get guys that ask me about my interest or hobbies.

A lot of the men are their own worst enemy. Guys rant in their profiles. They have few good clear photos or they choose photos with other women in there and dont crop them out. Most guys put very little effort into their profiles and then they are shocked women aren't interested.

A lot of men come across as bitter, self-absorbed, shallow, perverted, womanizer. They can be the nicest person but if they display any of those qualities they wont get the time of day. You know why men on dating sites are like that? Because after weeks or months of sending deeply thought out, interesting messages to women with shared interests and trying to talk about those interests, only to get completely ignored or get a one line reply and then nothing, most of us realized there's just no point in wasting time.

In fact, I found this article by googling "why do women never want to talk about common interests on dating sites", trying to figure out why this is the case. From all my experience it seems clear to me that all women want are cheap thrills from a hot "bad guy" - nice, interesting guys with common interests don't tickle their libido so we get ignored. Women get some creepy comments but some nice comments too. Men get no responses and are wasting their time on money on these sites.

Men don't get responses because they have a failure to communicate and they don't type so how do you communicate when you don't type the internet bathing system requires one to know how to type and if you pack it gets boring waiting on someone to respond back to you.

Then again unfortunately there are so many women now that are either gay and or bi adding to the problem too. As an internet busybody I hope to add my contribution to this awesome topic that has baffled the greatest and the not so great. The trend I see in most of the comments is Women siding with women and men siding with men, with few exceptions. Lots of people list personal anecdotes and use it it to generalise to what the real issue is. To me, after giving a lot of thought to this matter as a result of my own dating frustrations on Tinder, match , OK Cupid, and PoF.

I think the problem is a matter of choice. The ballooning of choice that internet dating has brought on now means we are no longer satisfied with our current options until our hands are forced. In the old days,people just met partners I. School, at church or at work and found a way to make it work.

Now you have a seemingly unlimited supply of partners. Even when you find one that is good enough, the current societal conditioning not to settle for anything for the best, or 'the one' just means the search continues. The 'top ' as in the most desirable of both sexes on these sites go on dates upon dates and most of them never quite find what they are looking for.

Making us all a little more shallower as a whole. Also, the modern individual is a little more narcissistic than ever. This gives a lot of us a false sense of our worth as people. This leads most young men and women to casually date till they wake up in Late thirties and early forties with a sense of urgency to find somebody anybody. I do not know how we can solve the dating problem but it's a problem both sexes have. Even Ladies on bumble the pro-female dating app aren't having much luck either.

Don't know why but it seams to be very logical. That's a lot of competition. And those guys that get picked don't have to settle at all, why would they? That's why women complain. They simply pick guys that they can't "afford". Women and men do exactly the same thing, they drop less interesting people as soon as possible.

The difference is such that women drop guys before they meet them, guys drop women after they have sex with them. It's the same outside the online world but on much smaller scale. The more attractive 50 stayed together not because they were never interested in opposite sexes, oh no, exactly opposite, they had very interesting encounters. They are just cool and every woman wants them. So I just got this thought. Maybe the whole idea with monogamy is just an absurd? Maybe everything is all right but we are looking at it from wrong perspective?

Maybe handsome guys should have many women and many kids and ugly guys should go to war and die? I've been on Plenty of Fish quite sometime and a few other dating websites, I'm a genuine guy, who will make an interest in reading and talking about interests. Yet get very few replies, but I have had people say I'm a good looking guy.

The biggest problem with dating websites, is ratio, there is more men then women on dating websites Go in chatroom's and you will see probably about men to every women in these chatrooms. Dating websites, is a bit like a competition at least it seems like that, where you're competing with everyone else. I set up an experiment once, just to see one of the reasons, why guys might struggle on these sites I set up a female profile, with permission using a female friends photo's.

Within minutes of setting up the profile, creating a fake bio Within half an hour, that profile had an incredible 75 messages from different guys, most put no effort in their messages or asking for one thing. Sadly if that's the case for a lot of girls getting so many messages, I can understand why so many of us guys struggle on these sites to get replies.

Another thing is and I have noticed it on quite a few of these female profiles, is the unrealistic expectations certain women set themselves. In the process extremely limiting her picks and possibly excluding somebody who's a bit shorter that could be the best partner for her. We all have expectations but it's those unrealistic expectations sometimes that I think is another thing guys have to compete against and why these women are single themselves, the knight prince on horse back doesn't exist in real life.

He comes to the village, impregnates all young women and goes away. Then he comes back next year. Women are programmed to have children with the best men they can find.

I'm not blaming anyone. The rest of life is a bunch of different stories, some are funny, some are happy but half of them are sad. And now because of the computers are running dating scene, we have data to prove it. I think that this is first stage, we just noticed that something is wrong. That was actually very smart experiment. Majority of these men are chasing after women that are not in their league.

That explains why as a single 35 year old female with no children that I constantly get messaged by 19 years olds, 54 year olds, guys with 3 kids, and other men where we dont share the same values and ANY common interests. I am also approached by men in other states that want me to pick up and move for them. I've clarified that I'm not interested in men outside my parameters but many think they can change my mind. They think they are so amazing that if I met them I will fall in love.

Many women are different in that if a guy rejects us MOST will just move on to the next. When I reject men they become hyper focused on changing my mind. I wish more people would adopt the notion that if someone doesn't want you that you should just move on.

Even if you change their mind its usually temporary. If I want to have a child of my own and a guy has 3 kids and doesn't want more I'm not going to change my mind. I dont have time to give everyone a chance. If guys stopped messaging women they have no chance with and messaged women they have things in common with they would be better off instead of messaging some hot dream girl that is out of their league.

Many of these men get angry and lash out. And I'm also tired of the overtly sexual messages as well. You've deluded yourself into getting it the opposite way around. You are looking for nothing but hot, single men in their thirties, and so is every other woman on the website.

Goes to show what primadonnas women on dating sites are when you can get it all this wrong. But don't go telling someone you've never met she's "way past her prime. I do think it's funny that you label a "hot single guy in his 30s," as tops among men. Let me tell you , they're not all looking for that. I'm in my 30s and in great shape best of my life , 6ft tall, friendly, respectful, own a house, two cars, my own business, and vacation around the world.

And I still struggle to get women who aren't overweight or who have kids to respond to me! My guess, for whatever reason, I don't photograph very well. And apparently, that's the most important thing. I've always done much much better meeting people in bars. Honestly, I'd ditch the computer and go back to that in a second, except all of my friends are married and don't want to go out anymore.

So, if I go out to a bar, I'm the weird guy out at the bars alone. It's not easy for anybody, unless you look like Brad Pitt. I can't believe the BS in this opinion piece. I've been online dating for years and only once in a blue moon will I receive a "well-crafted" message from a woman. I used bumble and exactly the same experience, usually it's just a"hi" or the equivalent.

Which effectively negates the idea that a woman has to message first because the onus is still on the man to create an interesting dialogue. Well i will certainly have to say that the real good old fashioned women of years ago really did put the women of today to real shame altogether since they were so much nicer with a very good personality as well as having good manors which made it very easy finding real love back then as well which today Most of the women are very Horrible to date unfortunately.

It is very difficult for many of us men to start a conversation with a woman since most of them aren't nice at all unfortunately which they will totally ignore us and walk away as well. Online dating is a real joke altogether since many women will not even show up when you set a place where to meet. So looking for love for many of us good men is like looking for a needle in a haystack which makes it very sad for us since many women nowadays like playing head games to begin with.

At least years ago there were really good places to go to meet a good woman for a very good relationship since you had parties, church dances, at school, through friends and families as well as neighbors that would introduce you to someone that they think would be right for you which now it has become very impossible unfortunately. Man, I totally agree and I am saying this even if I am 30, sporty guy, can cook, have a PhD, write poems, participate in photography contests and earn a decent buck.

However I am short, of very clear Italian descendant with baby face and slightly piggy nose and I might strike people as a bit nerdy even if I am very outgoing after you meet me. Even following all the possible tips I almost never got a reply on either OKC or meet.

The fact is after all this effort and not having any glimpse of success I am also thinking that maybe I will not have kids or I will try to relocate on another continent , try to be rich and have fun with my good friends and establish a charity to help people in need also because I earn more money than I need for a single person. And by the way even if all of a sudden some of my efforts would pay off, I am so irritated by years of insuccess that I would not settle for a girl shows some slight interest without putting any effort like all these "queens" on these websites, what can they really do?

Can they sustain all this stress, what do they do? I am currently on Tinder, and have been for about a month. All of the messages I have received from men have been respectful so far. I'm not sure why, but I'm guessing it has something to do with how I wrote my profile, as well as the pictures I chose to show. My profile is pretty straight forward, without being bitchy. My pictures are tasteful, and there are also some that show I am pretty jacked. I swear that after I have become more buff, men have gotten a ton more respectful.

And no, I don't think I'm special because I'm fit, it is just a physicality. I think one very important thing that any female can do, is be straight forward with what you want, but with a trace of ambiguity and openness. This way men feel comfortable enough to state what they really want, which is course paramount when finding someone of any decent quality and character. Also, this prevents men from molding themselves to what you want so they can get laid.

If you receive a pervert message which you will- it's pretty much guaranteed , do not give them any type of reward attention. Simply block, or keep the message so you can remember them, and therefore not be subjected to the behavior again.

The way women present themselves provokes how men will react. When I see genuine and cute profile, I try to be as well mannered as possible, I don't want to loose this opportunity. But when I see a woman that I don't like and she's a bit off, like desperate or bitchy, then my first idea is to ask her if she agrees to have sex with me, nothing else.

I don't do it because I'm fully aware that it doesn't work that way and I simply don't message her. But this illustrates the difference between my messages based on women's profiles. I am a woman trying st internet dating. There is no guarantee for a man or a woman that they will meet a great partner on the internet.

Their age - very young - there location - in another state - their marital status - married - no pictures - incomplete profiles - they have not bothered to read my profile. Then I read through their profile to see if they might be a person I would consider meeting in person. Guys, don't think the women are ignoring you. I READ the profiles. At least half the men are excluded because they have pets and I am very allergic to animals.

Love your dog and your profile picture has a dog? I will pass over you. Say you are an animal lover in your profile? Every man I have messaged that has a pet says "too bad - I love my pet". But just one of the reasons I do not message you.

I actually READ the profile to see if there is compatibility. Want a girlfriend who is kosher? Want a girlfriend who is a great cook? Want a girlfriend who likes casual sex how is sex casual? Want an animal lover? Have a fifth grade education and want a woman who can keep house? If you just want flattery, don't expect it on the internet. It is nice to get messages, but if the guy is completely incompatible in many ways, why do I have to send a message?

I don't expect men who do not like my online profile to message me either. The fact that I get dozens of messages from completely unsuitable men does not mean I am ignoring "nice guys".

Your neighbor is "nice". Is she dating material for you? My neighbors are "nice". Are they suitable dating material for me? If so, I would be married by now. Very difficult to find a suitable partner on line or anywhere. I'll admit that I ignore most of the messages I get on okcupid. I'm not interested in forcing myself into a relationship with someone that I'm really not attracted to. It frustrates me that so often do people think that just because they're "nice" they deserve a shot and that simply isn't how attraction works.

Men especially think this way. If you're nice and I'm not attracted to you, that makes you good friend material, but if I have to kiss you, I'm going to be forcing myself to do it. That doesn't even take into account sex. I'm not going to date you so why bother? I also ignore or block creepy messages for which I get a lot. If you're okay looking and you message me about something we're both interested in I will reply.

If I replied to every single message, even the ones I wasn't attracted to, I would have to be talking to at least 15 different guys every day. And they would probably continue talking to me for a week at least. That's around different people I would have to talk to by the end of my first week.

Almost all of those guys will probably be ones I'm not interested in so why would I bother? It will be a waste of time for both of us. Also you can't TELL a guy you're not interested. I've done this, I've tried to be nice, I'll even say "Hey you really like 'A' and I'm more of a 'B' kind of girl" or "you smoke and I'm not really a fan, but good luck! I get people desperately trying to tell me those things shouldn't matter if we connect on such and such another level that maybe doesn't matter to me.

Clearly I can't make my own decision on who's worthy of my time and I should just accept all these supposedly nice guys that flip the moment I'm not interested. This also doesn't mean all guys are like this.

There have been maybe 3 that I told them I wasn't interested in after talking to them and why and they went on their merry way. If the majority of messages women receive are juvenile, insulting, generic or just plain creepy, why is it that those rare men who study women's profiles the written ones and craft each message around the woman's likes, dislikes, hobbies, etc, still receive almost no replies?

And speaking of likes and dislikes, has anyone noticed that in many areas men and women like different things? How many men will say "Hey, I like romance novels too!

I am a woman who loathes romance novels and films , but loves martial arts revenge films. I am not saying this to be funny.

You should absolutely put that in your profile. You will get more messages juvenile and otherwise , almost guaranteed. While I certainly appreciate the desire to write about the travails of online dating I find your claim that this is the whole story from the male and female perspectives to be laughable. The whole story is likely impossible to tell but any story told from the perspective of two individuals to describe the experience of tens of millions of people is bound to be a bit shortsighted.

I think that a large part of the problem with online dating is how we view ourselves and others. The vast majority of profiles I've seen read like job applications. It seems as if a healthy smattering of keywords is all that is required to share who we are as individuals. The majority of profiles are as similar as mainstream medias concept of beauty. In the end there isn't much to differentiate one profile from another. On rare occasions someone has shown a willingness to write something unique.

A rare individual that is capable of thinking for themselves and doesn't feel the need to be a carbon copy of what society tells us are our desirable traits. Of the hundreds of profiles I've viewed this past few years I have come across a handful less than 10 and closer to 5 of women that stand apart from the crowd.

That is a very desirable trait in my search. A few years ago I had a profile on okcupid. I uploaded a few decent pictures of myself. I received a lot of views and a decent amount of messages. A year ago I created a new profile on okcupid and uploaded one picture that makes it somewhat more difficult to tell what I look like. This time around I've received considerably less profile views and considerably less messages.

I have no way of knowing how okcupid may treat my profile due to this difference but I have experienced enough to know that women just like men are swayed by physical appearance. Fortunately i am content with who I am as a person and recognize that at this stage of my life I am looking for a woman to connect with intellectually, emotionally and spiritually.

Certainly for myself physical attraction is important but it has moved from the top of my list to the bottom. I wish I could state that my shifting ideals have made it easier to find potential partners but in reality it is now immeasurably more difficult. In a society that values shallow beliefs, physical beauty, and cultural uniformity my attempt to find a truly unique individual has so far been unsuccessful.

Due to my differing belief system actually formed by myself through a couple decades of searching both inside and out utilizing the internet to find a partner provides slightly better odds than winning the lottery without buying a ticket.

To those still looking. May your search prove fruitful and may you not only find a partner but perhaps yourself along the way. What an intelligent, well-crafted description. I have to ask, I really have to, but I already know the answer: Where are the men who treat words this way?

You would think they would know how to treat a woman, too. Obviously not on Websites, which is why there is hope in this world, that past the wave of flat, online-dating lameness perhaps people will once again resort to real Life to get one Thank you, this is refreshing.

It has become clear to me with the passing of the years that my knowledge and understanding are very limited much to my own consternation. However I will do my best to explain the situation as I see it. My answer will likely seem off topic and possibly confusing.

Unfortunately the real issue, as is almost always the case with problems we are facing today, exists far beyond the usual scope of answers proffered. For a large society to function social stratification must be present. When a population expands beyond a relatively small number it is impossible for everyone to have an equal voice as the time and energy requirements would preclude the accomplishment of the necessary workloads.

To skirt this issue society requires managerial positions and base labor or worker positions. Just as managers help organize workers the governing of society requires the same type of organization. The answer to this problem would seem to lie in providing an equal education for all. That answer provides a couple glaring issues. First off it is important to recognize that those in positions of prestige will seek to maintain their position and furthermore will seek to promote the inclusion of their offspring into similar positions.

Secondly our education system isn't so much a system of learning as it is a system of training. For our society to function we require managers and workers.

If our education system really sought to equalize knowledge our current system would cease to exist. Instead our education system is designed to separate gifted from normal students as potential managers versus the working class. The design of our education system clearly has its roots in the workings of industry. Teach children to be on time and ready for a full days learning.

Teach children to submit to authority early teacher so as to be prepared to submit to those in managerial positions later on. Teach children to seek out permission in regards to bodily functions so as to further separate them from the ability to govern themselves.

Likewise our education system separates children from families to further degrade our communal nature including compassion and empathy and therefore connection to each other.

This is where it gets interesting. Consider what we've done so far. Now I'd ask that you reconsider your question. If your question was based upon a society of equals who were all knowledgeable, reasonable, autonomous and yet cooperative we could easily reason that people would treat each other with kindness and respect. However we've created a system of inequality in which the common citizen holds little if any power and instead lives by the whims of society at large.

This system promotes competition as it is undeniably preferable to gain power and move up the social ladder. My contention is that inequality and competition are the precursors of societies ills.

Men mistreating women certainly but more to the point people mistreating each other for gain. It seems odd to think that men seeking a partner would act as many so often do but it is important to remember we're not dealing with intellectually compassionate equals. We're dealing with generations of people that have been bred to compete with one another and ultimately not see each other as equals but as enemies of a sort.

We're not killing each other for the most part at least within our own society but we are competing for limited resources to our own detriment. It is important to note that women are playing their own role in this game of losers. Women by evolutionary design primarily revolving around the unequal distribution of effort regarding procreation seek out comfort and safety which play into the unequal distribution of power and wealth.

Early on men realize their ability to find a partner directly correlates to their ability to acquire wealth so as to be a better provider of safety and comfort for a wife and any potential offspring. While it is true a poor man can find a partner it should come as no surprise that the greater wealth a man possesses the more opportunities he has to find a desirable mate.

So we are left with a very complicated answer to what seems like a reasonably simple question. Unfortunately we are dealing with complex systems based upon an unequal distribution of wealth, power and knowledge.

My explanation is quite limited in its scope but explains the answer as I see it. Unfortunately the answer I've given also infers similar issues with offline dating as ultimately this has little to do with the internet and more to do with society. The internet plays its own role in this debacle with its inherent anonymity further allowing a debasement of the civilized forms of respect we've come to accept as normal.

Consider for instance civilization isn't so much truly civil as it is civil within the confines of its power structures. Also I can attest to the fact that I currently hold an account on okcupid.

I am currently looking for a partner. I have also chosen to abstain from competition regarding wealth and power and instead am attempting to find a place on the fringes of society where I can be myself without harming others. I own very little, earn very little, and struggle to find women willing to get to know someone in my societal position as a potential partner.

Certainly there are many good women open to dating a man such as myself but the difficulty is increased immensely. I have to be honest, your reply, while very interesting on societal analysis level, in very interesting, but it is indeed slightly off topic. I am just surprised, being that Website dating starts with writing and pictures, that men put so little effort in writing.

It would be like going to a date wearing really sloppy clothes. My question was not based upon a society of equals, but it was based on a society where all have access to school, which is the case in the US. However biased the system is, we all have choices and access to literacy regardless of gender. I was also not considering dating based on a marketing transaction -men with fat bank accounts and women stuck in comfort zones- but based on feelings and building a life with someone of the opposite sex because when you're with that person, you don't feel like you need or wish to be anywhere else.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with bank accounts and comfort zones. But in this country, everything revolves around marketing laws, including what cannot be bought, sold, or quantified. Which is why I don't have an account, because dating accounts are marketing tools, too. That said, you might run into a human being on one of them at some point, because anything is possible.

I really appreciate your succinct description of our issues with marketing in all facets of our life. Regarding the point you have made in regards to how little effort men put into writing as a means of sharing their true selves I would like to suggest that the issue is not limited to men.

I've perused hundreds of women's profiles and I can attest that it is a rare person that writes of themselves in a fashion that isn't simply a marketing job. The vast majority of women's profiles read exactly like a job application.

I don't believe the issue has to do with literacy per se. Instead I believe the issue lies with the individuals capacity to think for themselves. I mentioned education as I believe a large part of the intended goal is to afford people the ability to receive instruction. As opposed to being able to decide whether or not they should be following the instructions.

My most recent relationship was with an intelligent and compassionate woman who received a Waldorf education and in turn taught at the Waldorf Highschool she attended. She repeatedly informed me in our year and a half together that she wasn't comfortable with showing me her true self.

Instead she often acted in ways to impress me. Even after we'd been together over a year she was still putting on airs. Users of assistive technologies such as screen readers should use the following link to activate Accessibility Mode before continuing: Learn more and Activate accessibility mode. The updated table of size standards is available on SBA's website at www.

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subject line online dating

You state this, based on two interviews? I have known people of all ages including countless couples who seem to have a better grasp on celebrities lives than they do on their own.

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I am a woman trying st internet dating. There is evidence that couples differ in the pace and timing with which they initiate sex in their relationships.

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He should also own an apartment instead of us buying one together. Then if you're good looking and tall at least 6'3' because they're going to assume you're adding three inches you've got a subject line online dating. Yeah, I got a bunch of "hey sexy! I suggest asking him why he stopped emailing you… and if he doesnt reply or gives you a nonchalant reply, move on subject line online dating that definitely means hes not interested. Maybe everything is all right but we are looking at it carbon dating centers in india wrong perspective?